Conversation with the founder of Little Ghost, Sleepy: I am just a simple idealist. (Part II)

Welcome to wenser’s special column in web3. Welcome to Wenser's Web3 column.

As a representative NFT project in the Chinese-speaking region, Little Ghost is continuously building and growing more outstanding. The founder Sleepy, known as "the man behind Little Ghost," has always been quite low-key and reserved, giving off a mysterious vibe. So today, we are pleased to invite Sleepy to share his insights on Little Ghost, NFTs, and the Web3 field regarding practices, understandings, and future perspectives! Without further ado, enjoy it～

Interviewer: @wenser2010

Interviewee: @Sleepy0x13

A Conversation with Little Ghost Founder Sleepy: I’m Just a Simple Idealist. (Part I)

Sleepy: Regarding this, I’m not sure when this interview will be published, so I won’t go into too much detail. I’ll speak from a higher level. My overall view on NFTs, combined with a recent interview I read with a big shot from an investment institution, is that my understanding aligns with his: NFTs have gone through a process from assets to collectibles, and now they should transition from collectibles to a practical use case. Yes, because when you put it on the blockchain, you are essentially assetizing it; it is already an asset. As for PFP avatars and crypto artworks, if you create them beautifully, they have artistic and collectible value. Moving forward, we should explore what these NFTs can actually do.

Because right now, I feel there’s a contradiction: if you want to grow, you need to ensure that the community members who use (purchase) NFTs can make money and earn alongside you. However, the only way for them to make money currently is to sell the NFTs, which means they are no longer part of your community. I think this is inherently difficult to understand and creates a disconnect. For instance, I have some friends in communities like the monkeys and Azuki; they have done a lot of activities for these projects, increasing their visibility and raising the floor price. But if they want to pocket their profits, they can only sell their one and only Azuki. I think this forces everyone to rely on love to generate power.

Wenser: It does seem a bit harsh. On one hand, it feels like holders are using the project until it’s no longer useful; on the other hand, the project also seems to have a feeling of using up the holders and discarding them, leading to mutual abandonment.

Sleepy: Yes, so I think this aspect is quite unreasonable. Therefore, we are also exploring new paths. To put it simply, under the premise of compliance, how can we allow everyone to earn money without selling NFTs or enjoy other benefits? And these benefits are what our ecosystem will provide, such as other blockchain applications and products; there will also be some real-world related matters. Because we are not a particularly tech-focused company; we are more of a cultural company—doing culture-related things and lifestyle-related products, which are definitely connected to reality. At the same time, we believe it is necessary to push Web 3 towards a more universal Web 2 world. We will try to create more interactions between Little Ghost and reality.

Wenser: In other words, Little Ghost is trying to explore a better way to empower holders with benefits, which can be summarized as "non-speculative empowerment" compared to the speculative profits obtained from flipping NFTs. Holders can enjoy benefits without having to buy low and sell high or constantly monitor the market and floor prices.

Sleepy: Exactly. And think about it, Meituan members and Taobao 88 VIPs have to renew their fees every month; if you don’t want to use it after renewing, you can’t sell it. But Little Ghost NFTs are different; first, you can hold them for life, and second, if you don’t want to use them, you can trade them. Wenser: This sounds very much like a lifetime membership card for a club or an elite club.

Sleepy: American Express black card, Centurion card.

Wenser: Sounds enticing. Little Ghost holders are about to become "the elite" soon, haha.

Wenser: OK, we’ve covered that part. Let’s talk about the journey of Little Ghost from nothing to something, from 0 to 1, and as we approach the one-year anniversary of Little Ghost, what challenges and issues have you encountered, and who are the people you particularly want to thank for helping Little Ghost, you, and the community?#

Sleepy: The challenge is mainly because we are moving slowly; it’s not something like, “You buy today, and sell tomorrow to make money.” However, in this industry, time cost is a huge factor that needs careful consideration. So, for this, the community and onlookers need to spend some time understanding what we are trying to do. This could be a significant challenge.

Wenser: Indeed, or rather, all Web 3 projects face information and time gaps. Many things, whether it’s fermentation or the launch of products, or even achieving a goal, require time, resources, or other preparations. This creates a very awkward or uncomfortable phase, which is a phase of information opacity.

Sleepy: Yes, we have indeed encountered this before, as mentioned earlier. There was a time when our team was busy with many things, but before we had tangible results, it wasn’t convenient to share with everyone. This led some community members to think we weren’t doing anything, but in reality, we were...

Wenser: Busy every day, right?

Sleepy: Yes. This is quite frustrating because you need to manage expectations (to avoid people having no expectations or overly high expectations), while also maintaining a certain level of information transparency, which is quite difficult to balance.

Wenser: Indeed, it’s hard to grasp that balance because sometimes if you say too much, people might misunderstand or think differently; if you say nothing, people might wonder if you’re doing anything at all and just lying flat. However, I noticed that Little Ghost has been doing ghost monthly reports and various activities, which I think have greatly helped with communication and understanding between the community and the team. I think this deserves recognition, really.

Sleepy: That’s true.

Wenser: Continuing on, is there anyone or any organization you particularly want to thank?#

Sleepy: I think, first and foremost, I must thank our team members. As I mentioned earlier, people in this industry don’t necessarily need to work on a project; they could work on other projects or be partners elsewhere. They could earn much more than what we initially offered them. To be honest, our early incentives were relatively low, but perhaps everyone still contributed a lot to Little Ghost due to interpersonal relationships and community atmosphere.

Wenser: It could also be that they are captivated by your charisma! Haha!

Sleepy: Anyway, it’s quite rare to have everyone working together on this. You have to know that they are facing many choices. Some star-backed projects have also approached them, offering them a bigger stage, but our team members have remained committed and persistent until now.

Wenser: It sounds like they made the right choice by not leaving, right? After all, with star-backed projects, let’s be honest, by 2023, everyone has a certain understanding; it’s like pulling them back from the edge, haha.

Sleepy: That does seem to make some sense? Just kidding. Additionally, I want to thank our community because without the Little Ghost community, there would be no us. It’s really hard to express this in specific terms; otherwise, it feels too sentimental or mushy. I won’t elaborate on this; it’s all in the feelings. Also, I want to thank some KOLs and influencers from the beginning until now, like Yongkun, Christian, Tutu, and Teacher Frog. They have significant influence and have publicly expressed their support and optimism for us. I think this has greatly helped us in building our reputation and community stickiness. Lastly, I want to thank Rhythm. Because Rhythm (and some of the teachers there) has indeed been my guide into the industry, helping me grow since I joined the company. When I later said I wanted to work full-time on the project, the Rhythm team didn’t say they wouldn’t let me leave or anything; they were very open about my entrepreneurial endeavors. In summary, I believe our community and team are conscientious and grateful, so we will always remember those who have helped us and will not disappoint them when opportunities arise in the future.

Wenser: It’s already in the heart; those who understand will understand, haha.

OK, let’s get back to Little Ghost NFT. Because I remember a long time ago, Little Ghost clearly supported artists, and you yourself are an artist from Weir DAO, and many artist friends also support the Little Ghost project and you. What has Little Ghost done for artists and creators that is worth discussing? And as the founder of Little Ghost, how do you view the so-called creator economy often mentioned in Web 3?#

Sleepy: Understood. In our entire Little Ghost NFT series, there are 51 1:1 Little Ghosts that we co-created with artists. We didn’t restrict their styles; for example, they don’t have to match the style of our non-1:1 designs. On the contrary, we welcome them to create in their own style and use the styles they like.

Wenser: Respect for creative freedom.

Sleepy: Yes, so we have a wide variety of colorful 1:1 works, and we give all secondary trading royalties to these creators. Our previous idea was simple: we work hard to operate Little Ghost well and make it increasingly famous, so these creators can have a relatively stable income channel and a way to expand their visibility. Besides the economic income from royalties, we also take the artists' co-branded works to various occasions, such as offline events and exhibitions, to let more people know them. We have also created a creator tool to help more creators issue their NFTs without code, which is still in a phase without large-scale promotion. In addition, we plan to create a digital gallery called Manes Gallery—we hope to find or support a Basquiat of the Web 3 era, a Picasso or Van Gogh of the Web 3 era. We will use our resources and accumulation in Web 3, as well as some resources, brands, and production lines we have in Web 2, to help more artists while maintaining the purity and independence of art.

Wenser: Understood, but can you talk about this? Is it a bit too early to mention? Haha.

Sleepy: I think it’s okay; it’s not too hyped, in my opinion.

Wenser: Okay, since you say it’s okay, then there’s no problem. If you said it wasn’t okay, it would still get out eventually, haha. Sleepy: If it can’t be said, you should add a long string of “Bi————” sounds to tease.

Wenser: We can handle the sound effects, haha.

OK, let’s talk about a bigger question regarding NFTs. Because we just talked about artists, and some traditional artists are entering the Web 3 field with their thoughts, but they may not have a good platform or way to find their market. What do you think about the changes NFTs bring to traditional and digital art? And can you discuss the changes NFTs might bring from attributes, regulation, and legal aspects, especially significant transformations?#

Sleepy: Let me think. How to put it? There’s a common saying in the circle that NFTs allow every artist to live better and find their fans, which is indeed true. However, it may be much harsher than people imagine; it’s not that beautiful. If artists are not good at operation and promotion, or lack resource accumulation, they still need help from others. From this perspective, I think the difference between crypto art and traditional art isn’t that significant. However, I believe a significant push comes from its circulation. NFTs are virtual; with a click of the mouse online, you can buy them without needing transportation or, in extreme cases, a specific temperature or humidity for storage.

Wenser: Similar to preparing an environment for collectible-grade items?

Sleepy: Yes. Another point is creator royalties. Traditional artworks are one-time sales; any subsequent price increase has little to do with the artist. However, NFTs allow you to earn creator income from every transaction. I think this will incentivize creators to improve their artistic level and increase their operational efforts because these are directly linked to their actual income, which I think is a good innovation.

Wenser: Indeed, in terms of the medium, personal development of artists, and the long-tail effect of art profit, the returns for artists are quite good. Relatively speaking, there’s a significant difference between traditional artworks and NFTs, especially regarding royalties—auction houses may charge various fees, whether it’s commission fees or other deposit fees, so artists don’t have much pricing power in front of auction houses. However, in the NFT market, it’s a relatively free environment, and this difference also indirectly reflects the regulatory issues of NFTs. What do you think will be the evolution trend in this regard?

Sleepy: It’s hard to say. For example, with regulatory issues like NFT securitization, investigating bored apes (BAYC) may not yield any results. Some say NFT artworks are used for money laundering; I think this issue exists not only in the NFT field but is even more severe in the traditional art field, and the fees are higher. So while NFTs may exacerbate this phenomenon, I don’t think it’s an issue with NFTs.

Wenser: I agree with that. Moreover, relatively speaking, NFTs at least have on-chain records, which makes tracing and tracking easier than the opaque operations in the offline world. By the way, let me ask,

What do you think is the most attractive attribute or feature of NFTs?#

Sleepy: Actually, I might have said to many people before doing Little Ghost that NFTs are like a cup, a glass cup; if you pour cola into it, it’s black; if you pour milk, it’s white. I think the artistic, practical, or financial attributes of NFTs depend on what you put inside. If you put an artwork, like a Van Gogh painting, it becomes an artwork; if you put an unclaimed token or permission, it becomes a financial product; if you put a concert ticket or live house ticket, it becomes a consumer product or ticket.

Wenser: I actually agree with that. I think the container attribute of NFTs and the scalability arising from that attribute have tremendous potential. Whether everything can be an NFT or NFTs can be combined in many scenarios.

Sleepy: Yes, it might just be a tool. I don’t quite agree with the current common saying that NFTs are a specific track because they encompass both art and finance; it’s hard to categorize them into a specific track. NFTs are just a tool.

Wenser: It sounds a bit like NFTs are akin to the internet, computers, mobile devices, and smartphones, where what you put in and how much you sell are quite flexible.

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（Due to space limitations, the second part ends here; see the third part below ⬇️）

https://mirror.xyz/wenser2010.eth/DtCu-Lm1nTKWVZnyxafwBspsQjNM0Bmiq9rZf8Yz33g